Laity and Song
Mark, shared a personal story about their journey to becoming Catholic and their experiences with music in their spiritual life. They discussed the importance of the laity in the church and the role of singing in worship. Mark, also mentioned their plan to incorporate singing into their CORE meetings, using songs that are spiritually uplifting and drawn from Scripture or the Psalms. They encouraged the group to share their favorite spiritual songs and emphasized the value of prayer, fraternity, and song in their daily lives. Mark, concluded by mentioning the positive impact of singing in their family and the community.
MC: Joseph Gruber
Presenter: Mark Mathias
Brought to you By: The Knights of Columbus
Audio Trasnscription
participantOne:(3120-27740): Thank you. So, I'll use the mic if it helps. Do I need the mic? Yeah. I've got a teacher voice, but okay. I'm happy to share with the mic. So first I thought, you know, some of you know me and a lot of you don't know me very much so I thought I'd just share with you a little bit about me and my background.
participantOne:(28280-48500): I am a retired-ish teacher. I still teach through the Jackson Symphony and I teach music, hence the guitar. But I came to Jackson in 1997. To move here, I began teaching in the Jackson Public Schools in 1989.
participantOne:(49019-76400): But I was not raised Catholic. I was raised as a Baptist. My dad was a Baptist minister and a teacher, both. And I decided I would never be a teacher, and I wasn't planning to be a pastor either. But here I am today, preaching, and I've been a teacher. But my journey into the Catholic Church
participantOne:(77120-105000): was really quite an interesting and lengthy journey. When I was in high school, I became very interested in reading about Christianity. I began reading C.S. Lewis and some other things. And one book that really impressed me was by a Pentecostal pastor, and it was called The Cross and the Switchblade. It was about a man who had gone down to New York City. A Pentecostal pastor had seen
participantOne:(105440-135859): young men on the streets in gangs who were whose lives were really going south and decided that God had put him there to help get these guys out of that and introduce them to Christ and one of the things that was very powerfully at work was the Holy Spirit in leading him in the things that he was doing and I thought Holy Spirit is working like that in our day and age? I need to find out more about that
participantOne:(136200-163640): And so when I was in high school, I happened to be in a situation where I was at a boarding school, and they had a bus that would drop people off at the church they wanted to go to on Sunday. They'd take a bus, make the rounds, and I was always going to this little Baptist church. That's why I was Baptist. I thought, I'm going to have to get off the Baptist church. I can get off at any church I want to. So I started visiting all the churches in town.
participantOne:(163980-194019): And I went to a Pentecostal church, I went to Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, I just covered the whole basis, except for Catholic. Why? Because as a Baptist, I had been taught Catholics weren't really Christian. They're kind of like Seventh-day Adventists or Mormons or, you know, they're like a cult, they're way out there. And I was taught some pretty, actually pretty unfavorable things about Catholicism, so it was just not even on my radar anymore.
participantOne:(194740-227200): But when I got into college, I found out that there were these prayer meetings at St. Mary's Student Parish at the University of Michigan. And someone I had breakfast with in the dorm said, you know, there's these prayer meetings, you know, you should go there. And at that point, I was really feeling a need spiritually for something. I hadn't really connected to the church. So I walked over there on a Thursday evening and
participantOne:(227820-251960): walked down to the basement of this student center. I mean, I couldn't really even get in the door. The place was so packed, and there were kids lined up on the stairs, and the place was like electricity. It was like the Holy Spirit was just, the way people were praying and singing, I was like blown away, and I had to find out more about that.
participantOne:(252620-283380): And there were Catholics involved. So I began getting to know some of these folks in my dorm, and I would say, well, you guys believe such and such, don't you? And they'd say, well, no, not exactly. I'd say, well, what do you believe? And then I would find out. And I'd go, well, that sounds biblical. And the more I found out about Catholicism, the more I felt like, well, I always thought I was a Bible Christian. And I think the church, the Catholic church, has got...
participantOne:(283840-308159): insight into the Bible like I've never encountered before. So after a period of about six years of discernment, I decided to become Catholic and told my parents. And I have a younger brother. He's six years younger than me. He didn't know what was going on.
participantOne:(309220-340480): But he assumed that I had told my parents that I was gay. That's how serious it was. They were upset. No, it wasn't quite like that. So, but you know, over time, you know, one of the things I said to my parents was, you gave me an introduction to Jesus and to the Bible, and all of that has been my bedrock through my life.
participantOne:(341040-368659): And what I'm discovering now in the Catholic Church, I'm taking all that with me. There's nothing there that I'm leaving behind that's of that kind of value. And I think that was reassuring to them. One question my dad had was, well, don't you have to get re-baptized to join the Catholic Church? And I said, no, Dad, my baptism, they accept my baptism. He said,
participantOne:(368980-395500): Really? He was shocked. You know, and I had been, I mean, I could remember my baptism because we don't do infant baptism. I was baptized at age 10. In the name of the Father, dunk. In the name of the Son, dunk. In the name of the Holy Spirit, dunk. I mean, I could remember the whole thing. So, and you know what's interesting is I reflected back as a Catholic and started to understand
participantOne:(395660-422900): that baptism actually does something. I could look back to my life before being baptized and after, and there was something different. I didn't recognize it at the time, but something changed in terms of my, I don't know, desire for God or awareness somehow. And I think that was the work of the Holy Spirit right there. You know, that's what the Church teaches us about it.
participantOne:(423460-447780): I was saying, why did you bring the guitar? Okay, so I had volunteered to give a little presentation sometime. We were going to be talking about the laity. Last week, I'm over there talking to one of the guys and thinking about what I might do this week on the laity. And everybody starts singing Happy Birthday.
participantOne:(448000-474080): It's like, oh, it's Joseph's birthday. Oh, okay, cool. I didn't think anything of that. And I was going to talk to you about how this is really the age of the laity in a way. And it's in a way that I don't know that it has ever been in the church in the past. When Christ was conceived in the womb of Mary, that started the age of Christ himself coming into the world.
participantOne:(474820-505200): and his earthly ministry was then passed on to the apostles. That was the age of the apostles. But they then passed it on to the fathers of the church. We have their writings, and they explain to us how the apostles' teaching is to be carried out. And then we had the age of monasticism and the religious life. That was the big thing shaping Christianity for hundreds of years.
participantOne:(505640-536360): But in our day and age, you know, going back now, maybe since the Enlightenment, I don't know, but for at least in our generation with the Second Vatican Council, there's been a real emphasis on the clergy and the hierarchy equipping the saints for the work of the ministry, equipping the laity for the work of the ministry. And so we need to kind of wake up and say, oh, we've got a job to do here.
participantOne:(537040-566400): and that's why we're here. That's why you guys are here. I really appreciate the fact that you're doing this and I think it's a great privilege to meet you up here. Okay, now on to why I brought the guitar. I kind of got distracted. I'm sitting there. Last week, Joseph's talking about the laity and prayer and one of the things he says is, what is the prayer of the church, the official prayer of the church? Does anyone remember what he said? Somebody else piped up and said it.
participantOne:(566980-595200): Do you remember from last week? Some teacher is coming out on me, you've got to review, make sure your students know what they learned. It's the Liturgy of the Hours. The Liturgy of the Hours is a set of books that priests actually have to do every day. That's part of their commitment to be a priest. But it's prayers. But where do those prayers come from? Most of those prayers come from the Bible. Yeah, but which part of the Bible?
participantOne:(595819-616580): Guys, the Psalms. Then Joseph said, the Psalms are the songbook of the church. And I went, ding. I know what I'm going to talk about next week. It's singing. Because you guys had an awesome sound. When I heard that happy birthday, I go, oh, these guys can sing. Yeah.
participantOne:(617120-634220): We're going to do that next week. So, now I know some of you are going, I don't know about his confidence in my singing. Well, you know, guys, it's more about volume with us than it is about accuracy. That's okay. Thank you.
participantOne:(635319-658080): except Bill. The first song that came to mind when I thought of you guys is this one that's on your table here, Rise Up, O Men of God. And this is a song which is, it's an inspiring song for us to wake up to be the lady God wants us to be,
participantOne:(658439-680840): I want to say a couple things about the theology of it. And it's not a psalm from the Bible, and it's not scripture. It's more a sentiment that someone's written. And one of the things I always look at with songs that we sing in church is, well, is the theology really good, solid theology? And a lot of the older hymns from 100, 200 years ago
participantOne:(681579-707140): They are very deep. They're drawing on probably Latin texts from the fathers and translated, and they have a lot that they can actually teach us. I think some of the music that we get more recently in the church has less to offer that way, shall I say. Some of them I wish they had just taken out of the book, but anyway, that's another story.
participantOne:(707640-738720): So what I'd like to do now is teach you this song, Rise Up, O Men of God. But let me just read through the text a little bit with you. Rise up, O men of God. Have done with lesser things. Give heart and mind and soul and strength to serve the King of Kings. Rise up, O men of God. The kingdom tarries long.
participantOne:(740140-769840): Bring in the day of brotherhood and end the night of wrong. Rise up, O men of God. The church for you doth wait. Her strength unequal to her task. Rise up and make her great. And this is the key thing. So this verse is talking about us and what we do for the church. But you all know how...
participantOne:(770160-796500): It really isn't about us, it's about Christ working through us. It's about the Holy Spirit inspiring us and being with us. We don't actually have the strength to make the church great, but we do have the opportunity to open up to the work of the Holy Spirit that will give us the strength to make the church great. And what is it? It's the cross of Christ.
participantOne:(797400-830020): And that's where we come to this last verse. Lift high the cross of Christ, tread where his feet have trod. As brothers of the Son of Man, rise up, O men of God. So for me, that fourth verse is the key one, because what we really are doing to make the church great is laying down our life as Jesus laid down his life for us. We are laying down our life for our wife, for our children, for our grandchildren.
participantOne:(831000-861900): for the people we work with, anybody we meet, that's our goal is to do what Christ is doing and look at that person and say, what's the good of this other person? What is God doing that I can participate in that's going to be a blessing to this other person? Okay, so now I'm going to grab my guitar and I'm going to teach you this song and then we'll sing it together. I better not sing around the room.
participantOne:(866439-895260): Does anybody know this song already? Ever hear this one before? Raise your hand if you've already heard this before. Nobody. One. Yeah. All right, Steve. All right, Steve, sing out. I'm going to need you here. I'll sing first. Then I'll let you join us. Okay. And I put it down a little bit, guys, so you don't have to go up so high in your voice here. Rise up, O man of.
participantOne:(896180-927160): Have done with lesser things Give heart and soul and mind and strength To serve the King of Kings Rise up, O God The kingdom tarries now But bring in the day of brotherhood And end the war Rise up, O God
participantOne:(928000-957260): God. The church for you doth raise. Her strength to her task, rise up and cross her bed where his feet have trod. Brothers of the Son of Man, rise up, O men of God.
participantOne:(957880-982260): Wow, you guys are doing great already. That's awesome. Never heard it before, and you're doing a good job there. Okay, so we're going to go through it again. And I just want to say, I'd like us to make singing... And I talked to Joseph about this, and he was like, Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Make singing a part of what we do. So I will bring my guitar...
participantOne:(982579-1010300): each week that I can come and we'll sing this one until we're really into it and know it. Then I'll bring another song and I'm going to be talking to the guys in the room that are, you know, like musicians. Steve Berkemeyer, I talked to him. He's always got a guitar in his car. He never goes anywhere without a guitar. So if I'm not here, he'll do it. I might even just hand this over to him and he can do it. Or I'll stand up here and sing and you can play the guitar, Steve. But anyway,
participantOne:(1011100-1034040): And also, I was talking to Daniel Kuehler back there, who is professor of piano at Hillsdale College. I had the privilege of going to hear him perform, was it two or three weeks ago, at Hillsdale, and he performed 80 minutes on the piano alone by memory.
participantOne:(1034859-1066080): late works of Johannes Brahms on the piano. Some of my most favorite music. It was astonishing. I mean, that is like a lifetime achievement. How long did it take you to learn 80 minutes worth of music, Daniel? One and a half, three months. Whoa! That's a short amount of time, if you ask me. That's amazing. And it was beautiful, just amazing, beautiful. All right, gentlemen, let's sing this one more time. This time, raise your voice.
participantOne:(1066300-1110700): as my choir director in high school used to say, sopranos, altos, tenors, basses, and monotones. Here we go. Rise up, O men of God, who have gone with Master King. Give heart and strength to serve the King of Christ. The King carries the day of your hope and end of wrong.
participantOne:(1112000-1150140): Rise up, O men of God, the church for you to pray. Her strength unequal to her task, rise up and make her. Lift high the cross of Christ, for his feet have tried. As brothers of the Son of God, rise up. Thank you, gentlemen.
participantOne:(1151940-1168060): You're welcome. Now, I did have pens on the table. This sheet of music is kind of a temporary thing because I need some ideas of pieces of music that you know that are inspiring to you
participantOne:(1168400-1186260): And, you know, there's something about men singing a manly song. I mean, I'm not going to have us be singing Gentlewoman. I mean, it's a beautiful song. The women can sing that one, but, you know, and we can sing it together. It's a beautiful song. But I want us to do...
participantOne:(1186760-1211540): Songs that are going to lift our spirit as men and inspire us to do what God has asked us to do. So if you've got a title of a song you know that would be fitting for us for CORE, jot the title down. I'll look it up if I don't know it. Frankly, I have plenty of things to think of myself, so don't worry about it too much if you don't have one. All right, as far as discussion today, Joseph...
participantOne:(1212040-1240460): I don't know. I think one of the things I've noticed in our discussion group is we talk a lot about just how we're doing as men in our role serving the people around us. I think that's probably the most important thing we could be talking about. And are we praying? Kind of being honest with each other about, am I praying every day? Am I really taking the time to come before the Lord? I need to do that. And then...
participantOne:(1241040-1269100): fraternity, I think, a place for us is to just check with guys and see if there's something somebody needs and think about whether or not you're being asked to help out with whatever that is. Then beyond that, you know, if you want to share a little bit about your experience with music, that'd be cool. Okay? So there we go. You're welcome.
participantOne:(1271680-1295300): Are you referring to any place, any song? Well, it doesn't have to be out of the hymnal, but I think it should be spiritual. So we're not going to sing... Well, see, I'm not very good with secular music, so we're not singing pop tunes, guys. So, you know, something that's going to help us
participantOne:(1296300-1323480): grow closer to Christ, that has good solid words that are drawn from Scripture or the Psalms. And if you don't know any, like I say, that's okay. But you might have a favorite, something that you've heard at church that you really love. Awesome. Thank you, Mark. You're welcome. All right, guys. I know personally, last year, the chapel at Chesterton Academy, they get new hymnals every year at Advent.
participantOne:(1323600-1352560): They were getting rid of hymnals, and so I stole seven from the dumpster. Liberated before they made it into the dumpster. And every night now, as part of our nighttime prayers as a family, we choose a hymn and sing it together as a family. That wasn't part of what I did growing up. It's a new tradition in my family now. And it's just an amazing thing to do.
participantOne:(1352800-1383640): And I think most homes have been without song for way too long. I think the home is a great place for singing. I think church is a great place for singing. And I think men are great when they sing. So what was that? What are the groomers' favorite hymns? Oh, God Beyond All Praising is one of the kids' favorites. And they actually seem to know that one pretty well now.
participantOne:(1384280-1416940): I'm trying to think what else they really like. Companions on the journey. No. But what we're going to do is we're going to take a couple minutes for you guys to refill on coffee and donuts and the like, and then we'll go back to round tables for discussion, remembering that we're checking in on prayer. Are we actually praying every day? Formation, fraternity, and song. Sound good? Okay. Thank you.
