Being Uncomfortable
The discussion focused on the goals of CORE in Jackson, emphasizing becoming saints and the conversion of the city. It reviewed the spiritual life stages and the importance of spending time with holy individuals. The conversation highlighted the need for discomfort in the spiritual journey and the dangers of being comfortable with sin, using examples like contraception and gossip. The session concluded with a prayer for the group and the city of Jackson.
MC: Adam Hohn
Presenter: Joseph Gruber
Deacon: Rick Freedberg
Brought to you By: The Knights of Columbus
Jackson Michigan & Surrounding Area Catholic Parishes
Queen of the Miraculous Medal: https://queenschurch.com/
St John the Evangelist: https://saintjohnjackson.org/
St Mary Star of the Sea: https://stmaryjackson.com/
St Joseph Oratory: https://saintjohnjackson.org/new-here/st-joseph-the-worker-oratory/
Our Lady of Fatima: http://www.fatimaparish.net/
St Rita: http://www.stritacatholicparish.com/
St Catherine: https://stcatherinelaboureconcord.org/
Audio Trasnscription
participantOne:(0-32200): What are the two goals of CORE here in Jackson? Does anyone remember the two goals of CORE in Jackson? What are we aiming for? To be saints. To be saints and? Everybody in Jackson being Catholic. Yes. The conversion of Jackson and us becoming saints. Gentlemen, the city can change. It already has over the years, right? It always is changing. Right?
participantOne:(32599-64200): It can change for the better when we become the men that we're meant to be. All right. So that's a quick review of core. Last week, who here was here last week? Most of you guys were here last week. Awesome. So a quick review. Anyone remember the three stages or the three ways of the spiritual life? Deacon Rick, you can't raise your hand.
participantOne:(64620-100360): Yeah, right. Purgative, illuminative, and unitive. Purgative, illuminative, and unitive. All right. Does anyone remember the three kinds of persons I recommended you spend time with, that we all spend time with? The three kinds of persons. Anyone remember that? Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, so divine persons. That's one kind of person to spend time with. Saints. Saints, so canonized persons. Monarchs.
participantOne:(104280-137760): People holier than you. All right. Gentlemen, we've had a week since last week. That's what a week is. Thank you. Right? Thanks, Phil. Appreciate it. So a quick check. How many of you intentionally spent time with at least one guy that you otherwise might not have...
participantOne:(138540-178700): who you think of as further along in the spiritual life than you, who's pursuing sanctity, who wants to be in the unitive way. How many of you actually took time to do that this past week? Show of hands. All right, show of hands if you didn't do anything with that list of men whom you respect, whom you named, whom you thought of as holier than you. Raise your hand if you did nothing with that list. Okay.
participantOne:(180440-213700): Good to know. Gentlemen, if we don't take next steps, we won't change. Actually, worse than that. It is worse than that. If we don't take next steps to become better, we will get worse. There is no standing still in the spiritual life. Right? Like, if I don't physically exercise, it's not that I'm not getting stronger. It's that I'm actually getting weaker. If I don't take next steps in the spiritual life...
participantOne:(213960-245780): It's not that I'm staying the same. It's not like I've reached this great plateau. I am actually going to become a worse man if I don't take next steps. That's uncomfortable. And that's one of the themes of today's talk, discomfort. On the day that Joseph Ratzinger was elected to be Pope Benedict, it is told that he gave a little talk to some of the youth who were visiting from Germany.
participantOne:(246380-276060): And he gave them this little inspirational talk. Included in that is this line. The world offers you comfort, but you were not made for comfort. You were made for greatness. The world offers you comfort, but you were not made for comfort. You were made for greatness. So I wanted to dwell on this comfort thing for a little bit. We talked about it last week. It's worth revisiting.
participantOne:(276700-308159): This past Sunday, sometimes my family and I, we go to different churches in the area. It's like a little mini pilgrimage. And last Sunday, we decided to go to St. Catherine's down in Concord. And there, Father Dominic, the priest who does the Sunday Mass there, had this homily about people are comfortable in this world. And he said, that's insane. It's insane to be comfortable in this world.
participantOne:(308620-343659): This world is filled with wickedness. If we're comfortable with wickedness, what does that mean for us? Yesterday was the March for Life, gentlemen. Friends of mine were there marching on behalf of the unborn. It is a deeply uncomfortable thing that we live in a world, that we live in a state that says it's okay to kill babies. It is a deeply uncomfortable thing that they have developed a drug that they send in the mail to people
participantOne:(343900-374320): all over the country so that babies might die. That is an uncomfortable thing. If we are comfortable in this world, we are saying we are in agreement with the wickedness of the world. There are other things that are just... I'm just going to name two other things that people don't talk about very much. And these will be uncomfortable, gentlemen. These are uncomfortable topics.
participantOne:(374940-409920): And I just want to name them because I think it's good to feel uncomfortable. The world is very comfortable if we contracept. If we are married and we decide we don't want any more children, the world says it's okay to contracept, it's okay to get a vasectomy, it's okay for the wife to get her tubes tied. The world is very comfortable with that. To intentionally frustrate the sexual act, to intentionally mutilate the human body,
participantOne:(410220-441640): Those should be things that we are deeply uncomfortable with. Those are things that, if that's been in our past, it's worth bringing to our Lord in confession, and it's worth repenting of. It is a deeply uncomfortable thing to talk about that because it's touching on one of the most private things going on, which is the marital act, the love between a man and a woman. And yet, it is profoundly disordered to contracept.
participantOne:(442360-475660): But people don't talk about it. Most people don't even know. In Jackson, there was a span of time where at least several of the priests here in the parishes, from what I've been told, that they expressly told couples that it was okay to contracept. We should not be comfortable with that. That is an uncomfortable thing. That is not a good thing. So that's one thing. I wanted to bring up another one because I want us to be uncomfortable. Gossip is not good. Gossip is a horrible thing.
participantOne:(476700-505500): Gossip is a sin against one of God's commandments. You shall not bear false witness against a neighbor. It is a horrible thing. When we murder someone, we take their life. When we commit adultery, we have killed a marriage. When we gossip, we have killed a man's reputation. It's a bad thing. It's a bad thing to say false things about other people. It's a bad thing to say things that we're not sure are true about a neighbor.
participantOne:(505900-538600): And it's not a good thing to say true things unnecessarily about a neighbor. But people do it all the time. I think most of us, if we think about the last few weeks or months, we can come up with instances where we were talking about someone without them being there for no good reason, and it brought their reputation down. Probably across the board, most of us have had choice things to say about priests or about preaching.
participantOne:(540300-578380): And it did not build up the kingdom of God when we spoke. It actually was working to tear it down. And the world says it's okay to gossip. The world has actually generated a number of different gossip engines called social media. And the world wants us to be comfortable with gossip. We should not be comfortable with sin. All right, does that make sense? We should not be comfortable with sin.
participantOne:(579040-611380): If we are comfortable day in and day out, it means we are turning a blind eye to things that actually need to be addressed in our world. I want to talk a little bit about the first two rules of discernment from St. Ignatius of Loyola for a moment. So that little quarter sheet, if you have it on your table, you can pass it down. People don't have it. So St. Ignatius of Loyola has 14 rules for discernment of spirits.
participantOne:(611680-643560): So to talk about what's going on interiorly with myself, how do I actually adequately judge what's going on, usually with the help of a spiritual director. Sometimes I feel great when I'm praying. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I feel really at peace with a decision. Sometimes I don't. And he begins with these two foundational rules that are basically like the switch in the purgative way. The purgative way, when we...
participantOne:(644140-675000): decide not to keep committing mortal sins, and rather make the decision to never do anything to displease God, to always do things that are pleasing to God. So the first two rules of discernment. The first rule. Everybody has it in front of you? The first rule. In the persons who go from mortal sin to mortal sin, the enemy, that is the devil, is commonly used to propose to them apparent pleasures,
participantOne:(675219-704540): making them imagine sensual delights and pleasures in order to hold them more and make them grow in their vices and sins. In these persons, the good spirit uses the opposite method, pricking them and biting their consciences through the process of reason. I don't know if you've ever had this experience where you sit down to pray after you've committed some egregious sin, and the only thing that comes to mind is, I should probably go to confession right now,
participantOne:(705540-739160): Has that ever happened to you? Like, great. Yeah, the Holy Spirit prompting you, pricking your conscience. And that's something to pay attention to. And the devil doing the opposite. The devil offering all of these excuses, all of these reasons to stay in sin, all of these pleasures to distract us. The second rule. In the persons who are going on intensely cleansing their sins and rising from good to better in the service of God our Lord,
participantOne:(739500-767340): It is the method contrary to that in the first rule. For then it is the way of the evil spirit to bite, sadden, and put obstacles, disquieting with false reasons that one may not go on. And it is proper to the good to give courage and strength, consolations, tears, inspirations, and quiet, easing and putting away all obstacles that one may go on in well-doing."
participantOne:(770079-807720): So when we start progressing in the spiritual life, newsflash. Satan and all of his minions do not like it. They don't. They don't like you. And this is one of the things we have to understand. The devil doesn't like us, and he wants us to get discouraged. He wants us to give up in the mission to become the saint that we're called to be. Have any of you ever seen the movie Die Hard? Anyone not seen the movie Die Hard?
participantOne:(809360-839240): Couple people. OK, so there's this group of people who seem like terrorists who take over this tower on Christmas Eve. There's a Christmas party. And there's this cop from New York who happens to be there. And he manages to get away when they start firing their weapons. And he spends the whole movie, this is Bruce Willis' character, fighting them from the outside. And they're holding 30 people from this party hostage.
participantOne:(840500-869660): All right, so that's the basic thing. Turns out they're not terrorists. They're actually thieves. They're pretending to be terrorists in order for their plot. Guys, it came out in the 80s. If you haven't watched it yet, you're probably not going to. But it's helpful. Their plan was always to get these hostages and for these hostages to die as part of the plan. It was always their plan for the hostages to die.
participantOne:(870060-903000): This is really important for us to know. They seem like they might be reasonable terrorists who just wanted to hold them for ransom, but they only wanted them to die. And there's this scene where this, I don't know, coke-addled salesman named Ellis, he goes to the head honcho, Hans Gruber, maybe a relation, and he goes to him to negotiate. He goes to him to strike a deal. And he's like, Hans, boobie, come here.
participantOne:(904780-938240): And this guy named Ellis is going to negotiate because he thinks that he's talking to somebody who's reasonable. Somebody who's only holding him for a time who will let him go eventually. And Ellis gets a bullet in his head. Because here's something super important for us to understand. We never negotiate with somebody whose only intent is to destroy us. We never negotiate with someone whose only intent is to destroy us.
participantOne:(939040-972880): Bruce Willis at no point negotiates with Hans Gruber. He talks to him and he fights him, but he's never negotiating with him because he knows from the get-go that Hans is destructive. He is a murderous man. Guys, the devil, his only plan is for our destruction. There is no room for negotiation. There is no room being comfortable with...
participantOne:(973439-1009380): the schemes of the devil. There's no reason to go along with the schemes of the devil. He wants to lull us into a false sense of security. He wants us to feel comfortable so that we never make any progress, so that we never become who we are meant to be, because he hates who we are meant to be. And so if we are going along with him, he's going to placate us. He's going to try to make sure that we are pleased. And if we go against him,
participantOne:(1010560-1055520): He will not be on our side anymore. He was never on our side, but he will never even appear to be on our side. The Holy Spirit will prompt us, if we're going along with the devil, to turn away. There will be a biting of our conscience, a pricking, a use of our reason. The devil doesn't like reason. The devil doesn't like reason because ultimately that is of God. We don't reason with the devil. He's not reasonable. Okay. So it is...
participantOne:(1056420-1093880): a ridiculous thing for us to seek comfort in this world. So I reviewed from last week the fact that there are these three ways, the purgative, the illuminative, and the unitive way. We're called to complete union with God, who is a really awesome guy. That's the guy we want to be allied with. We want to be allies with God. We want to be in lockstep with God. We want to be with him. His plan is not our destruction. Right?
participantOne:(1094660-1135500): That's not his plan for us. What we find is at the beginning of the spiritual life, we are probably more closely allied with the devil. And so the experience is going to be a letting go of pleasure, a letting go of distraction, and a willingness to endure discomfort. Now here's the twist. Because I was thinking, I don't want to just review last week. I don't want to just add a little bit on from last week. The twist is,
participantOne:(1136360-1170180): Everyone we've ever met, everyone we ever will meet, every man in this room is called to complete union with God. Everyone we've ever met, everyone we ever will meet, and every man in this room is called to union with God. Which means that they're called to have this sort of journey through the spiritual life as well. Which means that many of the people that we're meeting are somewhere in their spiritual life.
participantOne:(1170740-1202160): And odds are decent in this crazy mixed up world of ours that most people we meet are either in the purgative way or before the purgative way, which means that they're comfortable. Which means this is the twist, guys. In order to evangelize, not only does that mean that we have to be uncomfortable, we have to be willing to be a source of discomfort for other men.
participantOne:(1203780-1241560): If we never want to make another man uncomfortable, if we never want to be a source of discomfort, we can never actually effectively evangelize Jackson. Does that make sense? That if we always stop short of asking the uncomfortable question, not to be a jerk, not to be an ass, not to be ridiculously nosy or inappropriate, but if we always stop short...
participantOne:(1243000-1279880): of the point of discomfort, if we think the goal in every relationship is peace at all costs, we are never going to evangelize. God delights in secondary causes. God can do all things, and he decides to do all things through us, that he wants us to participate in his saving work. And part of his saving work, gentlemen, is that pricking of the conscience,
participantOne:(1280100-1312700): that source of discomfort that helps people realize, oh, wait, there's more to this life than what I've been living. And maybe this guy that I'm aligned with right now, maybe he doesn't have my best interests at heart. So evangelization, John the Baptist began by saying, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Jesus began by saying, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. The call to repentance is part of the mission of evangelization.
participantOne:(1314420-1330240): Have you guys ever talked to a street preacher, by the way, the ones who are just shouting about how everybody's going to hell and everybody needs to repent? Have any of you ever spent any time with any? You've talked with one? They would come to different college campuses.
participantOne:(1330660-1362100): And so every once in a while, I was a Catholic missionary for eight and a half years on different college campuses. And so there was this one guy who was especially like, you're going to hell because of what you're wearing. You're going to hell because of this. You're going. And I went up to talk to him like, what's your goal here? Like, why is this your method? And he eventually told me, like, he was living a life of radical sin. And he was miserable. Right.
participantOne:(1362639-1394840): And a street preacher came and he heard the guy's call to repentance. And he was like, that makes more sense than anything else that I've been doing with my life. And so he gave his life to Christ that day. And he's like, I'm going to spend every free moment I have offering what I've received. I was like, oh, well, that makes a lot more sense of why you're a street preacher like this. Okay, that's not usually how I preach. But it actually made sense.
participantOne:(1395760-1423740): The call to repentance is one that we actually need. It is an uncomfortable thing. I don't think we're all called to be street preachers. I think most of us are not called to be street preachers, in case anyone was checking. But I think we are called to be men who are a little bit uncomfortable for people to be around. I think we are called to that. I think we can be that.
participantOne:(1426600-1454320): Again, I don't think we can do that. I don't think we can be that if we're not spending time with the three divine persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If we're not spending time with canonized persons, especially the Blessed Mother and other saints. And I really don't think we can do that unless we're spending intentional time with men who we think are holier than us. If we're spending time with those three different kinds of persons, then we're
participantOne:(1454900-1490100): I recommend we intentionally spend time with people who are unholy to be a source of discomfort for them. To be a source that can say, like, there is more. The world is offering you comfort. I'm not offering the same thing that the world is. I'm in the world, but I'm not of it. Which means I'm not offering the same thing as the world. I'm offering you Jesus Christ. He is an uncomfortable fellow, but he's definitely worth getting to know. That, gentlemen, is the truth.
participantOne:(1490960-1537380): is the goal. Because if we're not becoming saints, Jackson will only change for the worse. And if we're not becoming saints, what the hell are we doing? All right, gentlemen, if you would, let's pray a chaplet of divine mercy, especially for the men in this room and for the city of Jackson. Are people familiar with the divine mercy chaplet? Okay. Does anybody want to lead it? I don't have to do the leading. John, you got it?
participantOne:(1538600-1585960): You got it. Ready? Amen. Jesus, help me out here. Get started, huh? How does it start? You expired, Jesus, but the source of life. One more time. You expired, Jesus, but the source of life. What is the rest of it? It was an entire hell. All right. It begins. So that's an optional prayer. Okay.
participantOne:(1586200-1615720): An Our Father, a Hail Mary creed. We'll just start with those then. We'll just start with those. Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.
participantOne:(1616020-1646760): And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. May I inspire Jesus for the source of life, the source of souls. And the ocean of mercy open up for the whole world. The fount of life, unfathomable, divine mercy. Envelop the whole world and empty yourself out on the blood which gushed from the side of Jesus. And the heart of Jesus as a source of mercy, as a fountain of mercy for us. I trust in you.
participantOne:(1647560-1669380): Blood which gushed from the heart of Jesus, I trust in you. Blood which gushed forth from the heart of Jesus, I trust in you. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth.
participantOne:(1670060-1686760): Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women.
participantOne:(1687100-1715500): Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Holy Mary, Mother of God Pray for us sinners now At the hour of our death, amen I believe in God, the Father Almighty Creator of heaven and earth In Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit Born of the Virgin Mary Suffered under Pontius Pilate Was crucified, died, and buried Descended into hell Third day he rose again from the dead Descended to heaven and sits at the right hand of God The Father Almighty
participantOne:(1715780-1735620): I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting. Amen.
participantOne:(1736060-1758540): In atonement for our sins and those of the whole world, for the sake of this sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this sorrowful passion,
participantOne:(1758860-1781740): Have mercy on us and on the whole world. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. Have mercy on us and on the whole world.
participantOne:(1782000-1810360): Have mercy on us and on the whole world. Eternal Father, I offer you the body and blood, soul, and divinity of your dearly beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. In atonement for our sins and those of the whole world. For the sake of this sorrowful passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this sorrowful passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this sorrowful passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this sorrowful passion.
participantOne:(1810700-1841080): Have mercy on us and on the whole world.
participantOne:(1842360-1866740): in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world have mercy on us and on the whole world have mercy on us and on the whole world have mercy on us and on the whole world
participantOne:(1867020-1895220): Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of the soul, for the good of the soul.
participantOne:(1895420-1909820): Have mercy on us and on the whole world. In atonement for our sins and those of the whole world.
participantOne:(1910120-1938620): For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion.
participantOne:(1938840-1965480): have mercy on us and on the whole world have mercy on us and on the whole world have mercy on us and on the whole world have mercy on us and on the whole world have mercy on us and on the whole world
participantOne:(1969220-1997400): in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world. For the sake of the soul, O God. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of the soul, O God. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of the soul, O God. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of the soul, O God. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of the soul, O God. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of the soul, O God.
participantOne:(1997720-2027000): Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this hour. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this hour. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this hour. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For the sake of this hour. Have mercy on us and on the whole world. For God, holy, mighty one. Holy, immortal one. Have mercy on us and on the whole world.
participantOne:(2027580-2059299): Holy God, holy mighty one, holy immortal one, have mercy on us and on the whole world. Holy God, holy mighty one, holy immortal one, have mercy on us and on the whole world. O God, your mercy is endless, your strategy of compassion is awesome. Look highly upon us and increase your mercy. At difficult moments we might not despair or become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to your holy will.
participantOne:(2059880-2068879): Amen In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit Amen Thank you John
